In this episode, Danny chats with the leaders of VR Voice, an organization which aims to build a global community for the virtual reality industry by hosting events, bringing experts together for discussion and sharing market news on technological and social trends related to immersive media. Bob and Suzanne shared their thoughts on how VR has evolved over the years and how they’ve been able to help nurture a global audience for virtual reality news and information.
You are listening to the VR AR Pioneers podcast, brought to you by Admix.in. We interview top professionals who share their exact formulas for success in development, growth and funding an XR startup, and I’m your host, Juan Felipe Campos. Okay. VR, AR, pioneers. Remember on every episode we give away resources to help you grow your VR AR project. To enter the giveaway, subscribe to the podcast on iTunes and message the word “done” to Admix.in/giveaway to prove that you did it again, visit Admix.in/giveaway and message the word “done” to prove it and get your free resources. Today’s episode is led by Danny Halperin. Let’s hear more from him in this episode of the podcast.
Danny: 00:56 Hello everyone. This is Danny Halperin with Admix and the VR AR Pioneers podcast. Super excited to bring you this episode. I’m honored to have Bob Fine and Suzanne from VR Voice. They’re both very experienced in building the community around VR and have a lot of interesting things to share with us today. So super excited to have you both with us, so great. I would love to hear both of your backgrounds and how you came together to get VR voice started.
Suzanne: 01:31 Okay, you want to start Bob?
Bob: 01:34 Sure, I’m actually my, VR Voice is under the formal company called Blue Media, which I started about nine years ago and we started in social media content space. I organized the first social media conference, uh, on the east coast, uh, here in Washington back in June of 2009. And that lead to a book that came out in late 2010 called The Big Book of Social Media Case Studies and bring much to my surprise, it got picked up and used as a textbook at about 10 universities over the years. And, um, uh, and then we started the only print magazine ever still today about social media called Social Media Monthly. And uh, we had a global distribution in 20 countries. Uh, it was in Barnes and Noble, across the US and Fry’s electronics, uh, Chapters Indigo and Canada. And we printed that for three years.
Bob: 02:38 We did 17 issues and uh, but with that, we always had a sister website, thesocialmediamonthly.com. Uh, and uh, we acquired one of our competitors couple of years ago called The Real Time Report. Um, and then about three, well in 2016, we started looking at VR, after the Oculus Kickstarter and, always have kept an eye on VR over the years anyway as a gamer. And then there’s also a lot of overlap between social social media and VR show is very natural kind of progression. And we started experimenting with some events, uh, in 2016 and continued to do that through last year in some different verticals and kind of seeing where the interest is. And, and I think, we found our, our niches at least for the time being. And, I met Suzanne, uh, at CS at this past January in, uh, through a partner we were working with that she was helping out called Fuse Camera and, uh, we hit it off well and, and, uh, uh, quickly tried to assimilate her into VR Voice. And, and she’s now our, our European office.
Danny: 04:01 That’s incredible.
Suzanne: 04:04 Yeah. Yeah so we met at CS, so it was a really great place to be, to, uh, to connect to so many different companies and people interested in virtual reality. And so my company Field of Views is a VR consulting company we are based in Amsterdam and we started three years ago, uh, we initially produced 360 videos. That’s how I partnered with a diffuse camera company. And, we more switched towards helping companies get started in using immersive tech so that’s VR, AR, 360 video and um, we’ve been producing projects. We’re now, consulting companies and I’m finding actually finding ways to get them connected to produce our, um, partners you see everyone in the field is, is looking for opportunities to monetize whatever they’re creating. And so it’s really important to get connected and partner with a hardware, software companies, producers and find ways to help brands and companies get started.
Suzanne: 05:21 So, um, yeah, that’s a little bit about my background and it’s really great to be working with Bob. We met in Las Vegas and uh, I started hosting interviews for him for VR Voice and we met in Amsterdam in April when Bob came up for a couple of events and we thought it would be great idea to see if we could expand VR Voice, to Europe and organize events here in Europe as well. So we have a couple of events planned and um, yeah, we are really excited to see if we can make that grow.
Bob: 05:58 Yeah.
Danny: 05:59 I, I, I love the backstory. I think a sort of like a, a, a professional love story of sorts, you know, met in Las Vegas.
Danny: 06:11 So even two years ago, um, it sounded like with the excitement around the Oculus Rift, is really when this kicked off for you, Bob, two years in any industry isn’t that long. But for something like VR where the past two years have been so monumental for the progression of the technology, you’re almost like a veteran in this space already. And so have you been a nurturing this community and being a part for the last two years and sort of, you know, tell me about the significant steps along that, that two year path that you’ve had thus far with VR Voice?
Bob: 06:53 Yeah, thanks. That’s a great question. I appreciate the insight. Yeah. I mean, one of the things. So, so, uh, I’ve been, I’ve been in professional, you know, a technology and an engineer for 20 plus years now and this and I started this first business, a small business about nine years ago. I used to do consulting on and off, but consulting is very different from trying to build a product space company and, and where the product is the content, uh, and trying to make a living from that is, you know, any, any startup, any businesses is really, really hard. Um, and um, but what’s gotten me excited about VR is the same thing that, that was really exciting about social media. In the beginning was, I, at least I saw that social media was going to impact every single vertical. Then probably every individual at some point in one way or another.
Bob: 07:48 And I think we’ve seen that bear out over the last, you know, seven, eight, nine years, you, where Facebook and Twitter are, are, you know, common parts of everybody’s, you know, life and, and, and work for a lot of people. And so I, and VR is going to take that same path. I think it’s going to take a little longer in some sectors, um, but, you know, again, it’s a, I think we’re only a couple of years away from a, a really steep hockey curve adoption, especially as, as, you know, with the Oculus Go now being, you know, really affordable entry level product. Um, and uh, uh, and so yeah, I mean I’m, I’m, I love bringing people together and trying to help build community. It’s always a little bit of a, of a challenge on, you know, how do you do that and still try to make a living and pay the bills at the same time. Um, but I think we’re finding our way there. And um, you know, another thing, something else that we started last year that we’re now fully organizing the second year is a global virtual reality day.
Danny: 08:58 Yeah I saw that.
Bob: 09:01 Yeah. So last year we had eight cities participate. Um, uh, this year we already have more than eight cities committed. I think we’re now around 12 or 13 and uh, I think, I think there’s a really good chance we might hit 50 or more by the time it rolls around that November, but that’s designed is a as a day of um, education for the public about VR. Uh, it’s scheduled for the last Saturday before Black Friday, so it’s kind of an inch, you know, opportunity to try to get industry industry that I’m interested in as well to disperse some holiday sales and, uh.
Suzanne: 09:40 And also I think it’s good to mention Bob, sorry, sorry for interrupting you. But it’s good to mention that anyone who likes to organize a VR events and likes to join this particular day can connect, get connected to us and our platform and we can help them spread the word. And, and so, it doesn’t matter how big the event is, if you want to organize events, try and find a venue, we can help you. We have a lot of suggestions on the website. So if you want to organize, VR events and like to join the virtual reality day in November, please feel free to reach out to us so we can help. Sorry, just needed to add that.
Danny: 10:28 No definitely that is such a, such a great concept. I mean, it seems like every other day now Facebook announces some sort of day, whether, you know, Emoji Day, I think was yesterday. Um, there’s all these days, I don’t know who gets the, the authority to declare certain days, but I certainly think that we deserve a virtual reality day. And I’m glad you’ve taken the, the leadership stance and uh, hopefully declared a November 17th that, that VR day. So if that, if that ends up panning out, uh, worldwide, uh, like, I know you hope it will. I’m certain, you know, so, uh, the big companies will hop on board. And, uh, like you said, right before Black Friday, I can’t imagine any better timing for that.
Bob: 11:17 Well, what we had, we had global participation last year. We had a couple of cities in England and uh, there was one other international, what I can’t remember, but, um, and uh, you know, you’re asking about who’s, who’s, uh, I, I learned a long time ago that, you know, it doesn’t, it’s, it’s a, it’s a little pointless waiting for somebody else to give you authority to do something. Just go ahead and do something yourself. And, and before you know it, then you are the authority.
Danny: 11:47 Yeah, no I can already foresee a, a huge Oculus Go banner ad somewhere, uh, on November 17 saying, you know, get your Oculus Go on a virtual reality day or something of that sort. I, I totally foresee that happening. So, um, let’s, let’s wait and see.
Bob: 12:08 We’re actually already developing some, some meeting opportunities to try to work with Oculus and HTC and some others.
Danny: 12:16 That’s incredible. I really do hope that, uh, like, like you invited them too Suzanne and that other people join in and participate and make it a, you know, that global phenomenon that recognizes VR for, for what it is.
Bob: 12:33 You got that involved in the LA area.
Danny: 12:35 Yeah. Uh, you know, I’ll certainly a help be an advocate out there.
Suzanne: 12:40 I think it’s really important that we can find a way to get all industries involved. Uh, and, and so it could be like people from schools, universities could be an airport, could be at a company like a tourist place. It doesn’t matter. We need to have like all those different industries gets, get together, I get connected and get consumers, uh give consumers the opportunity to really experience virtual reality and we really need to happen in order to let, to help the consumer adoption grow.
Danny: 13:16 I think Bob said it really well about comparing VR to social media in the sense that it’s a content and an experience that will pretty much impacts every person in some way, shape or form, whether that’s in their personal or professional realm. And, uh, I can see that you guys understand that and are promoting that concept through the wide array of different VR voice events you guys have. It seems like I’ll let you touch on in a moment, but you’ve got defense and public safety, games and entertainment, VR for good, healthcare and it seems you guys understand that, uh, you know, this technology is, is spanning across so many different industries and that there are ways for different sectors to all participate in this movement.
Suzanne: 14:10 And also, um, we need to have the content creators, the software developers, hardware developers, the platforms we need to let all those different groups get together and get connected. Because if we have a lot of people creating really cool content but they don’t find a way to monetize it, why don’t we invite them over to an events so they can show off their work and maybe they can find investors that can help them. And we can have. We have opportunities to have consumers come over and have their first experience. So they really want to buy VR headset, you know, so it’s so important to, to find a way to, to, uh, to, uh, help the whole industry grow.
Danny: 14:57 That’s amazing. And uh, I, I’d continue on that saying that I think VR is also an extension of social media as we’ve seen over the past year where we now have the technology to support social VR worlds where people can come together in a virtual environment and uh, I already foresee that being eventually our primary form of social media in the sense that I interact with my friends and family and audience in a deeper, a more, a more impactful way, right? Like social media up until this point has been mainly a 2D experience where I’m reading or perhaps interacting in a minimal way with my loved ones and, and those I’m connected with online. But once social VR is a spread across the world, I can have a much deeper online relationships with people where I can actually feel their presence and, uh, do things with them, uh, more so than just interact with, with text. Right?
Bob: 16:10 Do you work for Facebook?
Danny: 16:13 I do not, but
Bob: 16:15 Yeah, I mean so, so I, I mean, it’s no accident that, that Facebook bought, you know, Oculus about the uh, the Oculus Rift and you know, some of the stuff that I saw last year that they were developing and, and slowly rolling out, you know, that connects VR with the Facebook platform is really cool. And uh, it’s uh, I, I think it’s just, it’s, it’s a matter of time. It’s just, it’s just how fast can they, can they get product out there and, and I think the biggest impediment today, you know, on adoption has been the cost of hardware and uh, I think the Go is a, is a great entry level product. It’s not, it’s not perfect. It doesn’t, you know, there’s some limitations, but I think for the, for the price and for what it allows you to do it, it’s a great deal.
Danny: 17:07 Absolutely. Suzanne, it sounded like you had a comment there.
Suzanne: 17:13 No, no, I didn’t this time. I totally agree with Bob
Danny: 17:18 This time, not every time. So I love how you’ve brought up, um, you know, the, the issue that content creators have with, with monetizing their, their work. Obviously that’s something we care deeply about at Admix and have dedicated ourselves to help solving. Originally when we sought out on, on that project, we really, uh, looked through a problem solving lens. You know, what problems does the industry have and certainly in its infancy stages, there’s a lot of things to tackle. But, uh, what we identified as one of the most significant issues facing the industry was that talented content creators who were building out experiences for this new medium. If they failed to monetize, they would end up closing their doors. Um, you know, uh, closing the studio or giving up and ending up reorienting to some other line of work or using their skills for doing something slightly different. And so that was taking a lot of the talent out of the industry, which was the exact opposite of what we needed at this point. So really when we first started, we were hoping to find a way to keep all the, all the talent and passion that was going to VR, uh, to, to stay within VR. So, um, that, that’s sort of funny. Yeah, go ahead.
Suzanne: 18:58 I think it’s quite frustrating for many content creators that they struggle to find clients and also, um, in the end it’s chicken or the egg scenario where we need good concepts for brands to invest in VR because if we don’t have the content then consumers don’t have a reason to buy VR headset, and if they don’t have a VR headset, then brands will not invest. So it is, it is interrelated and that’s why it’s really important that content creator keep pioneering and keep finding ways and just take baby steps to make their contents available. And also it’s very valuable for brands and it’s great to a hear that we have like more and more, um, platforms that help the content creators to show their work and maybe monetize it through those platforms.
Bob: 19:55 If I can, if I can talk to that, I mean there’s, I think there’s a real catch 22 issue in terms of content distribution right now in the VR space and I say catch 22 because if we think, if we look at Youtube as a good example for, you know, a dominating platform for video on the web, um, there’s, there’s a lot of, there’s a love hate relationship with that situation and VR, there’s, right now there’s, there’s a wild west right now in terms of our content distributors and people are trying to position themselves and want to be the Youtube of VR. But on the, on the content side, on the content creator side, I think people are hesitant about, you know, going all in on one platform or the other because, you know, then that platform, whether it’s the Youtube of VR, or what have you, you know, dictates the rules and dictates that monetization. But with that same, uh, you know, looking on the flip side of it, without that dominant player, without, you know, Youtube, we would not have had video end up being a common part of the web. And so it’s, what I was saying it’s that Walmart and small store situation too, it’s a, you know, there’s a lot of pros and cons on both sides of it.
Danny: 21:22 Yeah, absolutely. And I think, Suzanne said it well, it’s really the content that’s driving the adoption, right? Like people, unless they are are a techie or a professional or an enthusiast, uh, particularly in this space, uh, consumers make emotional purchasing decisions and they do so. They buy the technology because of what it enables them to experience and do not because of the specs of the device or you know, the specifics of the hardware capability. It’s really what, what can I experience by making this purchase? And so it seems like we’re really waiting for that super compelling content, if not the actual standout app. Somewhat of like a Pokémon Go for AR or you know, the Candy Crush of, of cell phone or mobile apps. And what we’re really just waiting on that, those key standout pieces of content that will drive people to purchase the hardware. Right.
”I learned a long time ago that, you know, it's a little pointless waiting for somebody else to give you authority to do something. Just go ahead and do something yourself. And, before you know it, then you are the authority.Bob FineVR Voice Founder
Bob: 22:32 Well, I think you have better insight I think than a lot of hardware manufacturers, because I think they, you know, maybe you know, beyond, I think Oculus is thinking more about the content side than the product itself though. I think it remains to be seen whether they’ll be able to market well enough. But I think other, you know, I think if you look at the, you know, the Google Pixel and, and Pico Interactive and others, I think, I think they are too too enamored with their own hardware and they’re missing the fact that it’s not going to matter if, if, if they don’t help push content out. Um, and uh, yeah,
Danny: 23:17 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, uh, I’ve started to see the hardware manufacturers package games with the purchase of the hardware, right? So I think Oculus Rift just announced one with a Marvel VR game and that sort of idea where they realize, you know, maybe not, um, they, maybe they don’t realize that better than you or I, but that, hey, we need the compelling content to drive this purchasing decision and so we need to be partnering with the Premier content creators to enable, you know, our community of content to be the premium destination which will drive consumers to purchase it, purchase our hardware. So I think that’s starting to occur, uh, you know, PlayStation had it with Skyrim VR and there are these packages that we can find. But I think what is really critical is the third party developers the indie developers who are creating these experiences, uh, experimenting with different ideas. And I think honestly though, the indie developers will produce the, the standout game like Beat Saber right now if you two are familiar, is just flying above every other VR experience out there. And I think it was created by a small dev studio with just a few people somewhere in Europe. I want to say Amsterdam or maybe I’m wrong on that, but, um, I, I’m really interested to see what the indie community does to, uh, produce the AAA content over the standard game development studios.
Bob: 25:03 Yeah, I couldn’t say it any better.
Danny: 25:07 I am curious. I know, um, there’s a lot of, there, there’s like two sides of this debate and I just love getting a pulse on where people lie on the spectrum. But um, there’s been a lot of news recently of Magic Leap and their headset being released to the initial creators, sort of a beta program it seems. And I’d really love to hear what your thoughts of a magically bar or a, if you’re excited or if you think they’ve missed the mark or overhyped their technology or you know, at any of those ideas.
Bob: 25:47 Well, I think, I think overhype definitely and you know, to be fair to them, I haven’t had enough experience with it to be able to comment whether the technology is good or not and, and, and whether they oversold it or overhyped it. But, um, but I do think they, I think they’ve done a bad job. I know I’m not, I’m not a fan of their press approach, um, because I think they, they, they’ve been trying to. It’s been hurting the industry as a whole by, oh no, no, wait, wait until our thing comes out, it’s going to be the better than sliced bread. And um, you know, I don’t think developers are people necessarily been taking that approach or waiting for it. Um, and uh, and they’ve been given, you know, gobs of money. I’m not quite sure how, but you know, just because you just because you’ve been able to raise a lot of money doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re going to be able to execute or deliver on everything you say.
Bob: 26:48 I think Uber’s a great, great example of that. Um, so, you know, it remains to be seen. I, I, I, I, I hope the company does well, I hope it becomes part of the ecosystem, but I, I hope it doesn’t become a standard or, and I don’t know if there everybody’s trying, once you establish that standard, you know, platform that, that dominates over all the other hardware platforms, but, you know, I think for the, for this kind of industry to thrive and, and because it, you know VR and again is much more along the lines of, you know, a PC market, a mobile handset market where you need interoperability between devices for the market to grow as a whole. That’s a little less than a, you know, I think, you know, you’ve got an Xbox versus PS4 situation as well. But I’d say there’s more similarities now between that hardware than uh, differences and what you know and, and you know, you can buy pretty much the same game for both and you have that happening in VR as well. So, you know, it’s, it’s, uh, uh, you know, I think, I think, I think there’s more than enough room for, you know, 10, 15 hardware, you know, platforms and, and I hope there’s enough that there’ll be enough competition to keep prices down.
Suzanne: 28:16 Also if we look at, um, I think it’s really important to think about the customer experience and I think in general most consumers will not feel very comfortable putting on AR glasses as well at this stage. I’ve seen just so many people that’s still haven’t had any experience with VR, AR, 360 video and I think the best experience they will have for most of the people will still be on their mobile devices on their phone or on their iPad. Um, and I think it’s, it’s both for VR and AR. Yeah.
Bob: 28:57 Well I think that, I mean at least I agree with that as far as AR is concerned. I think for VR, I think, you know, again, but the Oculus Go where the, where the screen and the and the and the processor are built in. Just, excuse me, just makes the setup so much, so much easier than having to pop in your phone and make sure the Bluetooth connected, you know?
Suzanne: 29:22 Yeah.
Danny: 29:22 Yeah. I think it’ll be like the standalone versus tethered VR headset will be comparable to the desktop PC versus laptop evolution where, you know, the Gamers, the professionals, the, the heavy users of the device will appreciate and want and purchase the higher performance devices. So in that scenario, you know, the people who are heavy users of VR, uh, for the near term future, we’ll still use the tethered devices because it taps into the processing capability of, of a console or computer. But for the mass market of more casual users, they want the portability and ease ability of, of accessing that content, um, you know, without the ordeal and they don’t need necessarily the, the highest tier computing power in order to experience what they want to do. So similar like the laptop, you know, I want to be able to take it with me. Uh, I want to be able to, uh, do the essential task, but I’m not going to be, you know, gaming really heavily or maybe streaming or, or these, these higher computing needs, uh, that, you know, I would rather do on a desktop experience. So I think that evolution will be very comparable to the desktop and laptop. Um, relationship as well.
Bob: 30:55 Well, no I agree with you to a certain extent. Unfortunately. I think there’s, um, you know, there’s a, there’s a very different, uh, experience level and ability of immersion between a, a mobile headset, VR experience and, and the Rift or the VIVE and it’s a because it can be a little underwhelming depending on, on what you experienced on the, on the Go. And so, oh, that’s great. That’s kinda cool. I mean, unless you, unless to a triple A game or something really good that makes people go wow. And I’m able to get the wow effect when, when, when we ramp up the easiest experience that we ever give people when we’re doing those, those kinds of things is running people through Fruit Ninja on, uh, on the VIVE or the Rift. You know, easiest thing to pick up and play anybody and your grandmother, but it’s a great, it’s a, it’s an immersive enough experience that it gets a great wow factor, but that capability is expensive, you know, on the PC, but at least, but you know, that’s going to come down in price over time. Um, but it does also let people know that, hey, this is where the technology really is today and you know, it, it’ll be a couple of years maybe before you can afford it in your home. But it’s, it’s coming.
Danny: 32:18 Yeah. And I, I think what is important to note is that it, in my opinion, at least, I think I’ve seen that standalone and tethered will sort of merge where, uh, for example, I saw a VIVE Pro battery pack come out where you attach it to the headset and that essentially makes it untethered just by, you know, I don’t even know exactly how it works, but I’ve seen how people have this six degrees of freedom and, uh, be able to move around in virtual environments without the tether. So if that’s the case, you’re still gonna get that premium experience without, um, you know, uh, requiring a, the connection to the computer itself. I also think like the VIVE Focus has some advantages over the Oculus Go. So although Oculus Go is really significant in that it’s the first, uh, promising stand alone VR device. That really is like the first generation, like we’re talking about the iPhone one here, the iPhone two, and here we are 10 years later and it’s, it’s almost a completely different device in terms of its capability. So it’s going to be really exciting to see, uh, how, how these devices and technology evolve over the next few years.
Bob: 33:45 Yeah, I mean from, from a first generation standpoint the Go is a fantastic product and that, that, that makes you just, I think we’re just going to be so amazed in three or four years with what comes out. I mean, I, I haven’t seen the VIVE Focus in use yet because I, and I, I’m not sure if that’s completely untethered and uh, uh, all self contained. I don’t think you need a PC with it. And then, you know, Oculus is developing the Santa Cruz, which is untethered and, and six degrees of freedom and I think we’ll see in early 2019 or mid 2019. But uh, yeah, no, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s great. I mean, it’s very exciting times.
Danny: 34:28 Yeah, absolutely. And uh, I know we are close to wrapping up here, but before we do, I wanted to give you guys a chance to talk about some of your upcoming events and uh, you know, environment. Anyone can join?
Suzanne: 34:42 I just wanted to add a little comment to what you were just talking about and that’s that I think that we’re all in the VR space and we have a lot of people around us that know about VR and they have had success and they know how it works. But apart from my whole work situation, like my friends and family, they don’t, they, they have no clue what’s going on. And I think for, that’s for the majority of the people that the first step really needs to be that they need to find any kind of VR AR 360 video experience on the web. So they can have it not in their face with a headset because there is a big barrier for many people to put on a headset and if they can find it more easily on the web on Facebook or wherever they, they, they are looking for, um, I think that really needs to be the first step if we talk about consumer adoption and then the next step could be like a smaller device that they could put it in their face, one of that’s AR glasses or a VR headset or whatever I was going to be next. Yeah.
Danny: 35:54 So yeah. I really appreciate both of you joining. I know you’ve got Reality and Games and Entertainment Extravaganza coming up in the next few days. I hope we can get this episode out prior to that, but if not, it looks like you have events throughout the rest of this year. So super excited for you guys and thank you for all that you’re doing to help nurture this community.
Suzanne: 36:22 So Bob did you want to mention the events that we have scheduled now.
Bob: 36:26 Yeah real briefly, so starting on Monday is our second annual VR games and entertainment, which all online and it’s free. Um, and that’s kind of know we try to do a mix of, of both free and paid events, you know to both grow the community, but also pay the bills. Um, we’re doing our first defense and public safety, a VR event here in Washington October. Um, it’s a little bit of an experiment. I’m not too many focused events on, in that area yet. Um, but we’re excited about. We’re doing our first event in Europe on, for VR that is, and a VR in healthcare in Zurich in December. And then we have our third annual it’s you know VR in healthcare event here in the US, which will be at the University of Arizona in Tucson in early March. And uh, we’re really excited about that. Um, and uh, then we’ll be doing a number of smaller events, will be at CES again doing live interviews on the show floor and a lot lots, lots happening.
Danny: 37:36 That’s super exciting. And uh, we at Admix, and with the VR AR pioneers podcast. We’ll be getting into community management and event planning as well. So I really look forward to crossing paths again soon and maybe even eventually collaborating on something.
Suzanne: 37:56 And don’t forget about Virtual Reality Day on November 17th.
Bob: 38:00 17th this year.
Danny: 38:02 November 17th super excited.
Bob: 38:05 So for in order. Yeah. We want to always do it on a Saturday. So it’s so parents can bring their kids and it’s not during the work week conflicting with other stuff so that the idea is every year it will always be the last Saturday before Black Friday.
Suzanne: 38:22 And if you want, if you want to organize your event, you can reach us at virtualreality.org. Um, that’s where you can find the information and that’s how you can find us.
Danny: 38:35 Great. Please do reach out to these two. Uh, I think you’d be very well to a lean on them for, for support. I’m certain that Suzanne and Bob have have a lot to offer, um, in terms of helping you promote and scale. So, uh, are there, is there one last takeaway you two would offer for our people listening, uh, whether they are developing content or producing hardware or, or just a hobbyist in the space,
Bob: 39:11 I’d say just never, never give up on yourself.
Suzanne: 39:15 And I would add to that, um, make mistakes, make as many mistakes as you can. And learn from those mistakes and just keep going.
Bob: 39:25 Don’t make mistakes on purpose.
Suzanne: 39:28 Well, okay just embrace your most mistakes and continue developing.
Danny: 39:35 Great. Well thank you so much for joining me today. I look forward to speaking with you both again soon.